1
00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:05,920
[Music]

2
00:00:11,830 --> 00:00:09,090
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

3
00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:11,840
from Australia for science and reason

4
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:13,920
[Music]

5
00:00:22,870 --> 00:00:16,850
[Applause]

6
00:00:25,609 --> 00:00:22,880
[Music]

7
00:00:28,730 --> 00:00:25,619
hello and welcome to the skeptics on

8
00:00:32,570 --> 00:00:28,740
episode number 515 for the 2nd of

9
00:00:34,580 --> 00:00:32,580
September 2018 richardsaunders here with

10
00:00:38,090 --> 00:00:34,590
you from Sydney Australia a little bit

11
00:00:39,410 --> 00:00:38,100
cold for spring and I know the rest of

12
00:00:41,630 --> 00:00:39,420
the world saying hang on a minute the

13
00:00:43,790 --> 00:00:41,640
seasons haven't changed yet but for some

14
00:00:45,619 --> 00:00:43,800
reason here in Australia we regard the

15
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:45,629
first day of September as the first day

16
00:00:52,189 --> 00:00:49,650
of spring even if the real first day of

17
00:00:53,990 --> 00:00:52,199
spring isn't until a bit later go figure

18
00:00:55,450 --> 00:00:54,000
that one out quite frankly I wouldn't

19
00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:55,460
mind if the first day of spring was

20
00:00:59,990 --> 00:00:58,050
delayed until next year but that's just

21
00:01:02,899 --> 00:01:00,000
me coming up on this week's episode of

22
00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:02,909
the skeptic zone we chat to associate

23
00:01:07,580 --> 00:01:04,650
adjunct hang on answer that egg junk

24
00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:07,590
professor ptosis professor ed JA we

25
00:01:13,399 --> 00:01:11,130
procedure them associate adjunct

26
00:01:15,550 --> 00:01:13,409
associate we chat the poor Willis a

27
00:01:18,830 --> 00:01:15,560
longtime friend of the sceptic zone

28
00:01:21,770 --> 00:01:18,840
dating way back to the early days Paul

29
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:21,780
used to work at our I oz as the director

30
00:01:25,820 --> 00:01:23,610
there and that's when we were bringing

31
00:01:27,770 --> 00:01:25,830
you a week in science for many years

32
00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:27,780
Paul's gonna be talking to us about a

33
00:01:34,550 --> 00:01:29,970
recent survey that came out that shows a

34
00:01:37,010 --> 00:01:34,560
decline in the belief of or the belief

35
00:01:38,750 --> 00:01:37,020
in creationism amongst university

36
00:01:42,710 --> 00:01:38,760
students which must be a good thing and

37
00:01:44,870 --> 00:01:42,720
his take on the secular outlook a piece

38
00:01:46,910 --> 00:01:44,880
of his mind with Paul Willis coming up

39
00:01:49,130 --> 00:01:46,920
at the top of the show following that

40
00:01:50,740 --> 00:01:49,140
it's our new reporter Michele Franklin

41
00:01:54,350 --> 00:01:50,750
from Darwin in the Northern Territory

42
00:01:56,450 --> 00:01:54,360
with her segment life is wild and

43
00:01:59,710 --> 00:01:56,460
Michelle segments are going to be

44
00:02:02,630 --> 00:01:59,720
focusing on wildlife and animal issues

45
00:02:05,810 --> 00:02:02,640
very interesting this week to kick off

46
00:02:10,729 --> 00:02:05,820
she's going to be looking at our cats in

47
00:02:11,630 --> 00:02:10,739
danger of being eaten by snakes B that's

48
00:02:14,690 --> 00:02:11,640
an interesting one

49
00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:14,700
the story of Maggie the moggy bent

50
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:16,650
around off the show the last part of our

51
00:02:21,979 --> 00:02:19,290
speed meet the scientists that was a

52
00:02:24,830 --> 00:02:21,989
wonderful night here in Sydney a couple

53
00:02:27,470 --> 00:02:24,840
of weeks ago during science week this

54
00:02:30,709 --> 00:02:27,480
week we're going to speed meet a marine

55
00:02:34,309 --> 00:02:30,719
archeologist and evolutionary biologist

56
00:02:37,429 --> 00:02:34,319
a behavioral neuroscientist a linguist

57
00:02:41,119 --> 00:02:37,439
and an astronomer well that's enough for

58
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:41,129
me I'm gonna run downstairs try out some

59
00:02:44,990 --> 00:02:43,290
sweet potato pasta eat that very quickly

60
00:02:51,650 --> 00:02:45,000
come back and bring you the rest of the

61
00:03:15,730 --> 00:03:13,460
a piece of his mind with Professor Paul

62
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:15,740
Willis

63
00:03:25,449 --> 00:03:22,370
[Music]

64
00:03:28,089 --> 00:03:25,459
and joining me now all the way from

65
00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:28,099
Adelaide from media engagement services

66
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:30,170
is none other than professor Paul Willis

67
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:32,930
hello Paul oh thank you very much for

68
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:34,970
the promotion it's actually only an

69
00:03:39,250 --> 00:03:37,370
adjunct asana see a professor but I'll

70
00:03:41,350 --> 00:03:39,260
gladly take the professorship thank you

71
00:03:42,670 --> 00:03:41,360
very much well not many people go to the

72
00:03:46,229 --> 00:03:42,680
bother of saying all the other things

73
00:03:53,380 --> 00:03:49,030
technically no I am only an adjunct

74
00:03:57,369 --> 00:03:55,390
nicely catch up with you Paul long time

75
00:03:59,830 --> 00:03:57,379
listeners to the skipping zone we'll rim

76
00:04:00,910 --> 00:03:59,840
well remember the contributions you've

77
00:04:03,220 --> 00:04:00,920
made to the show over the years

78
00:04:05,170 --> 00:04:03,230
especially with a week in science some

79
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:05,180
years ago when you were at our IR s are

80
00:04:10,509 --> 00:04:07,730
good times you've moved on since then

81
00:04:13,599 --> 00:04:10,519
tell us a little bit about this meteor

82
00:04:16,390 --> 00:04:13,609
engagement look basically our main

83
00:04:19,810 --> 00:04:16,400
proposition is we can show researchers

84
00:04:22,540 --> 00:04:19,820
how to communicate their research using

85
00:04:25,390 --> 00:04:22,550
social media basically they can take

86
00:04:28,270 --> 00:04:25,400
control of their message and by doing so

87
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:28,280
they can actually increase the impact of

88
00:04:35,469 --> 00:04:32,570
their research so we've worked out how

89
00:04:39,070 --> 00:04:35,479
to string together various social media

90
00:04:41,260 --> 00:04:39,080
platforms so that you create a network

91
00:04:43,540 --> 00:04:41,270
that reaches out specifically to the

92
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:43,550
people who are actually interested in

93
00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:45,650
your research I think the basic

94
00:04:50,529 --> 00:04:48,110
proposition is you know a lot of people

95
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:50,539
go into research communication and they

96
00:04:55,390 --> 00:04:53,090
think I want to tell the world about my

97
00:04:58,719 --> 00:04:55,400
research and it's like now why bother

98
00:05:00,460 --> 00:04:58,729
why bother going on television talking

99
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:00,470
to a million people who couldn't really

100
00:05:05,260 --> 00:05:02,330
give a toss about what you're doing a

101
00:05:08,050 --> 00:05:05,270
much better value proposition is to set

102
00:05:09,969 --> 00:05:08,060
up a dedicated audience it might only be

103
00:05:11,350 --> 00:05:09,979
a couple of dozen people but if those

104
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:11,360
people are actually going to take your

105
00:05:15,159 --> 00:05:13,610
research and do something with it that's

106
00:05:18,700 --> 00:05:15,169
the audience you need to be talking to

107
00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:18,710
so that's my basics pitch yeah and very

108
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:20,720
interesting and just before we get on

109
00:05:25,719 --> 00:05:23,090
with the rest of the chat how can people

110
00:05:28,810 --> 00:05:25,729
look at that information online media

111
00:05:31,380 --> 00:05:28,820
engagement services.com do it's all

112
00:05:35,529 --> 00:05:31,390
there on our website we can produce

113
00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:35,539
seminars or workshops video tutorials

114
00:05:38,469 --> 00:05:36,080
and

115
00:05:41,170 --> 00:05:38,479
way to get this this kind of information

116
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:41,180
across to researchers and folks of

117
00:05:45,219 --> 00:05:43,250
course Paul Willis has the runs on the

118
00:05:48,070 --> 00:05:45,229
board with long experience in the media

119
00:05:50,589 --> 00:05:48,080
and on TV and many Australians will

120
00:05:52,179 --> 00:05:50,599
remember but right now Paul I'm very

121
00:05:54,850 --> 00:05:52,189
interested in the story that I think you

122
00:05:58,420 --> 00:05:54,860
brought to my attention via a Twitter or

123
00:06:01,119 --> 00:05:58,430
Facebook a couple of weeks ago and it

124
00:06:02,950 --> 00:06:01,129
seems fewer Australian University

125
00:06:05,860 --> 00:06:02,960
students than ever believed in

126
00:06:07,869 --> 00:06:05,870
creationism and this is sort of research

127
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:07,879
done by our mutual friend professor Mike

128
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:11,090
Archer yeah who is actually my former

129
00:06:16,209 --> 00:06:13,849
supervisor and in fact in the very year

130
00:06:22,379 --> 00:06:16,219
that I started with him as a research

131
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:22,389
student 1986 he started a regular annual

132
00:06:29,409 --> 00:06:26,810
survey of first year students asking

133
00:06:31,899 --> 00:06:29,419
which of four positions they actually

134
00:06:33,909 --> 00:06:31,909
hold true so these are students at the

135
00:06:37,119 --> 00:06:33,919
beginning of their university career in

136
00:06:40,809 --> 00:06:37,129
science in biological sciences and the

137
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:40,819
four options are evolution without any

138
00:06:45,459 --> 00:06:43,370
kind of supernatural interference the

139
00:06:47,529 --> 00:06:45,469
second is that evolution has occurred

140
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:47,539
but there has been a god or some other

141
00:06:54,309 --> 00:06:50,330
supernatural influence in over the whole

142
00:06:57,850 --> 00:06:54,319
process then there's adherence to

143
00:07:02,290 --> 00:06:57,860
creationism and the fourth category is

144
00:07:05,290 --> 00:07:02,300
don't really know and he's conducted

145
00:07:07,629 --> 00:07:05,300
that now for what thirty two years so

146
00:07:10,379 --> 00:07:07,639
he's got a really interesting set of

147
00:07:13,230 --> 00:07:10,389
data now which shows some very

148
00:07:17,230 --> 00:07:13,240
intriguing trend lines basically

149
00:07:18,730 --> 00:07:17,240
creationism amongst first year biology

150
00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:18,740
students at the University of New South

151
00:07:26,469 --> 00:07:24,409
Wales has dropped from about 12% down to

152
00:07:29,070 --> 00:07:26,479
just a few percent mmm but there is

153
00:07:32,829 --> 00:07:29,080
there is a significant decline in

154
00:07:36,010 --> 00:07:32,839
first-year students who are committed

155
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:36,020
creationists but the most interesting

156
00:07:45,100 --> 00:07:41,930
drop is a very large drop in the number

157
00:07:48,189 --> 00:07:45,110
of theistic evolutionists so those are

158
00:07:49,660 --> 00:07:48,199
the the ones who tick the box saying

159
00:07:53,980 --> 00:07:49,670
evolution has occurred but

160
00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:53,990
being guided by God and commensurate

161
00:08:01,750 --> 00:07:56,570
with the drop in theistic evolution has

162
00:08:05,650 --> 00:08:01,760
been the rise of non theistic evolution

163
00:08:08,020 --> 00:08:05,660
of straight no God involved scientific

164
00:08:11,650 --> 00:08:08,030
evolution the grass that are generated

165
00:08:14,530 --> 00:08:11,660
and I can recommend that the listeners

166
00:08:17,850 --> 00:08:14,540
go and chase up these reports on this

167
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:17,860
particular study because the grass

168
00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:21,650
generated there's a clear X with the

169
00:08:29,740 --> 00:08:25,910
decline of theistic evolution and the

170
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:29,750
rise of plain evolutionary biology it's

171
00:08:33,490 --> 00:08:31,610
interesting because I mean ever since I

172
00:08:35,590 --> 00:08:33,500
have known you Paul that's been one of

173
00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:35,600
the major issues you've certainly been

174
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:38,510
concerned with and if I hark back to the

175
00:08:43,750 --> 00:08:41,210
the origins of the Australian skeptics

176
00:08:45,970 --> 00:08:43,760
apart from spoon bending in UFOs and all

177
00:08:48,490 --> 00:08:45,980
the good stuff from the 1970s one of the

178
00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:48,500
huge issues that the Australians the

179
00:08:53,980 --> 00:08:50,540
Australian skeptics tackled in the early

180
00:08:56,830 --> 00:08:53,990
days was creationism and these days it

181
00:08:58,630 --> 00:08:56,840
hardly registers on the radar at all is

182
00:09:02,520 --> 00:08:58,640
that what you're you're finding is as

183
00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:02,530
well yeah I might my introduction to

184
00:09:10,030 --> 00:09:06,160
skepticism was through my work with

185
00:09:11,860 --> 00:09:10,040
creationism or against creationism I was

186
00:09:14,850 --> 00:09:11,870
arguing in primary school against

187
00:09:18,430 --> 00:09:14,860
teachers who were putting forward

188
00:09:21,970 --> 00:09:18,440
creationist message and yes there does

189
00:09:25,150 --> 00:09:21,980
seem to be a drop-off in Australia of

190
00:09:27,340 --> 00:09:25,160
the creationist message it doesn't seem

191
00:09:30,580 --> 00:09:27,350
to be as widespread or as pervasive as

192
00:09:33,310 --> 00:09:30,590
it was even 10 years ago when we had the

193
00:09:36,190 --> 00:09:33,320
whole intelligent design debacle yes

194
00:09:38,590 --> 00:09:36,200
which are reported on that for catalyst

195
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:38,600
and you know we went went out to a

196
00:09:46,530 --> 00:09:43,250
school a Christian school in the hill

197
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:46,540
suburbs of Sydney and they were

198
00:09:50,860 --> 00:09:48,770
presenting intelligent design in the

199
00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:50,870
classroom as look this is a possible

200
00:09:54,910 --> 00:09:52,910
alternative you know makes you think

201
00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:54,920
doesn't it no it it only makes you think

202
00:10:00,760 --> 00:09:57,200
if you don't know what the subject is

203
00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:00,770
you know it's it was adequately

204
00:10:08,530 --> 00:10:03,230
described as the lipstick on

205
00:10:11,050 --> 00:10:08,540
Pig of creations you know we it looks

206
00:10:13,420 --> 00:10:11,060
like from the data that's come in that

207
00:10:14,410 --> 00:10:13,430
that creationist influent has dropped

208
00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:14,420
off hmm

209
00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:18,700
but more importantly the whole

210
00:10:26,650 --> 00:10:23,570
abandoning of theistic evolution that's

211
00:10:30,190 --> 00:10:26,660
really well reflected in the census data

212
00:10:34,390 --> 00:10:30,200
which shows the rise of secularism of

213
00:10:38,020 --> 00:10:34,400
people choosing no religion as their

214
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:38,030
first option on the census yeah yeah so

215
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:42,890
this this rise in not simply the

216
00:10:48,580 --> 00:10:45,170
rejection of God but just moving away

217
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:48,590
from the whole religious question I

218
00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:50,810
think that's what we're actually seeing

219
00:10:54,820 --> 00:10:52,910
reflected in this data refers to your

220
00:10:56,530 --> 00:10:54,830
students yes let's pick up on that

221
00:10:58,930 --> 00:10:56,540
subject in a moment but before we do

222
00:11:01,480 --> 00:10:58,940
that I wonder Paul if you remember about

223
00:11:04,420 --> 00:11:01,490
10 11 years ago you and I in a merry

224
00:11:07,660 --> 00:11:04,430
band of skeptics set off and we attended

225
00:11:10,570 --> 00:11:07,670
a creationist lecture complete with a

226
00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:10,580
model a scale model of Noah's Ark here

227
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:15,760
in Sydney to so many of them they're all

228
00:11:22,650 --> 00:11:20,570
pulling as each other and you know as

229
00:11:29,020 --> 00:11:22,660
with virtually any subject that

230
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:29,030
scepticism tackles I maintain that we're

231
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:30,800
never going to win the battle you're

232
00:11:36,070 --> 00:11:33,440
never going to convince the the the

233
00:11:38,380 --> 00:11:36,080
other side that they're wrong but if you

234
00:11:40,570 --> 00:11:38,390
don't get in there and battle they will

235
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:40,580
win and we can't afford that

236
00:11:47,830 --> 00:11:45,170
the object isn't a skeptical challenge

237
00:11:49,570 --> 00:11:47,840
to any supernatural proposition the

238
00:11:51,490 --> 00:11:49,580
object isn't to convince the other

239
00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:51,500
person that they're wrong as I said

240
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:53,180
you're never going to do that they're

241
00:11:57,550 --> 00:11:55,370
committed but because of the online

242
00:11:59,980 --> 00:11:57,560
environment there is a large audience

243
00:12:02,560 --> 00:11:59,990
out there who are watching and they're

244
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:02,570
the ones whose minds you can change mmm

245
00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:06,850
they're the ones who are looking for the

246
00:12:15,490 --> 00:12:11,390
most reasonable and passionate argument

247
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:15,500
so you know my tip on arguing against

248
00:12:19,449 --> 00:12:16,850
creationism or

249
00:12:22,210 --> 00:12:19,459
anything that you want to argue online

250
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:22,220
there's three basic rules take the high

251
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:25,850
moral ground always be polite and always

252
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:28,250
bring it back to the evidence mmm if you

253
00:12:34,269 --> 00:12:31,490
take those three then the audience

254
00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:34,279
that's watching that discussion are more

255
00:12:39,999 --> 00:12:35,990
likely to accept what you're going to

256
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:40,009
say rather than someone who's probably

257
00:12:44,110 --> 00:12:41,569
going to start ranting and name-calling

258
00:12:47,620 --> 00:12:44,120
and obfuscating now let's look at this

259
00:12:50,829 --> 00:12:47,630
whole area of secularism and it just

260
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:50,839
occurred to me that even though you we

261
00:12:54,579 --> 00:12:52,880
can't convince the hardcore believers on

262
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:54,589
the other side there are certainly less

263
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,959
of them do you think that's partly

264
00:13:03,939 --> 00:12:58,639
because simply and to put it simply

265
00:13:08,259 --> 00:13:03,949
they're dying out yeah I think that

266
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:08,269
there's also because now Society allows

267
00:13:14,009 --> 00:13:10,490
more debate and discussion and

268
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:14,019
questioning of religious propositions

269
00:13:18,850 --> 00:13:17,600
each successive generation is doing

270
00:13:21,490 --> 00:13:18,860
exactly that they're actually

271
00:13:23,759 --> 00:13:21,500
questioning religious propositions and

272
00:13:30,220 --> 00:13:23,769
that they don't simply don't measure up

273
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:30,230
to the expectations that people require

274
00:13:39,069 --> 00:13:34,880
for a code of living now you throw into

275
00:13:40,569 --> 00:13:39,079
that the abysmal track record of some of

276
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:40,579
the churches when it comes to things

277
00:13:50,170 --> 00:13:45,410
like pedophilia in the ranks and the

278
00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:50,180
whole same-sex marriage debate that it's

279
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:53,990
incongruous for many people to think

280
00:13:59,920 --> 00:13:56,810
that these are organizations that are

281
00:14:03,579 --> 00:13:59,930
promising to give you a moral code yeah

282
00:14:06,970 --> 00:14:03,589
and yet they're behaving so immoral and

283
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:06,980
so all of these factors I think come

284
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:11,120
together to have people abandoning faith

285
00:14:18,129 --> 00:14:15,410
and belief as a process to knowledge yes

286
00:14:21,309 --> 00:14:18,139
it's interesting so and of course this

287
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:21,319
is led to in part I guess to the rise of

288
00:14:27,639 --> 00:14:22,970
what we might call the broader secular

289
00:14:31,329 --> 00:14:27,649
outlook yeah you know we have you can

290
00:14:33,490 --> 00:14:31,339
say maybe it's the rise of eighth

291
00:14:35,860 --> 00:14:33,500
but I I think it actually goes beyond

292
00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:35,870
that because you know I've been surfing

293
00:14:42,250 --> 00:14:38,750
along on the whole rise of atheism over

294
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:42,260
the last decade or more but I've never

295
00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:43,760
really felt comfortable there

296
00:14:52,540 --> 00:14:47,529
because essentially as a proposition

297
00:14:56,620 --> 00:14:52,550
it's not stating what you accept its

298
00:14:59,620 --> 00:14:56,630
stating what you reject mmm and you know

299
00:15:01,000 --> 00:14:59,630
we don't define ourselves as well I'm

300
00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:01,010
not a stamp collector

301
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:03,649
I mean tell you about me you don't

302
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,410
expect the Catholic to say I'm not a

303
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:08,720
Protestant that doesn't really tell you

304
00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:12,800
what they are and so by taking a

305
00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:17,060
rejection statement as the your position

306
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:20,630
statement for what you accept in the

307
00:15:26,740 --> 00:15:23,120
world that that doesn't make sense to me

308
00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:26,750
but also there is an underlying thing

309
00:15:34,180 --> 00:15:29,950
that really it's not that I reject God

310
00:15:37,780 --> 00:15:34,190
it's that I reject belief as a knowledge

311
00:15:41,139 --> 00:15:37,790
system right and if you reject belief as

312
00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:41,149
a knowledge system then you can't accept

313
00:15:48,940 --> 00:15:44,510
the God because a God is only exists as

314
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:48,950
a belief proposition you cannot provide

315
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:50,930
evidence that there is a God and

316
00:15:58,269 --> 00:15:54,250
therefore it's a it's a belief statement

317
00:16:00,220 --> 00:15:58,279
so I think that more and more people are

318
00:16:02,980 --> 00:16:00,230
coming around to this it's not a

319
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:02,990
rejection of God it's a rejection of

320
00:16:11,079 --> 00:16:08,320
belief and that's why I've switched from

321
00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:11,089
identifying as an atheist so identifying

322
00:16:17,470 --> 00:16:14,750
as a secular humanist you know I've now

323
00:16:20,829 --> 00:16:17,480
actually become a an ambassador for the

324
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:20,839
National Secular Lobby and the basic

325
00:16:27,730 --> 00:16:24,890
proposition is look let's have a truly

326
00:16:30,730 --> 00:16:27,740
secular society where we have the

327
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:30,740
religious freedom for you to believe and

328
00:16:36,430 --> 00:16:32,810
accept whatever you want

329
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:36,440
I won't challenge that that you must

330
00:16:42,250 --> 00:16:38,570
play by the rules and there are three

331
00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:42,260
simple rules for a secular society you

332
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:43,880
must not do any harm

333
00:16:49,060 --> 00:16:46,610
to yourself to your parishioners or to

334
00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:49,070
anybody else through your religious

335
00:16:53,890 --> 00:16:50,350
beliefs or practices

336
00:16:57,970 --> 00:16:53,900
you must not inflict your beliefs on

337
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:57,980
anybody else in across society and you

338
00:17:04,090 --> 00:17:01,360
must act within the laws of that society

339
00:17:06,670 --> 00:17:04,100
if you stick within those three rules I

340
00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:06,680
don't give a damn what you believe you

341
00:17:12,550 --> 00:17:09,260
know you can go away and believe what

342
00:17:15,150 --> 00:17:12,560
you like but you must maintain that

343
00:17:17,380 --> 00:17:15,160
within the bounds of those three rules

344
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:17,390
that's interesting and I couldn't help

345
00:17:21,939 --> 00:17:19,730
and I wonder if listeners felt the same

346
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:21,949
way I couldn't help thinking of Isaac

347
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,050
Asimov's robotic rules when you're

348
00:17:29,620 --> 00:17:26,959
reading those out well maybe with the

349
00:17:32,170 --> 00:17:29,630
rise of in artificial intelligence and

350
00:17:35,410 --> 00:17:32,180
maybe that's the way we do need to to

351
00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:35,420
phrase the laws of secularism maybe

352
00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:37,640
maybe we do oh so you're an ambassador

353
00:17:43,890 --> 00:17:40,790
for the National Secular Lobby and what

354
00:17:47,410 --> 00:17:43,900
else does that entail well let's see

355
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:47,420
among our ranks are a Christian other--

356
00:17:55,930 --> 00:17:52,130
ambassador Jane Caro Philip Adams and

357
00:17:59,550 --> 00:17:55,940
basically we've been set up to provide

358
00:18:03,640 --> 00:17:59,560
an alternative to groups like the

359
00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:03,650
Australian Christian Lobby so in Paula

360
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:06,140
in the political arena there is a

361
00:18:13,420 --> 00:18:09,530
secular voice that can be heard above

362
00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:13,430
all of the religious voices that are

363
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:15,230
injected in there through various other

364
00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:17,930
lobby groups that's interesting because

365
00:18:21,670 --> 00:18:19,790
that's been a particular theme

366
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,680
especially I think here in New South

367
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:23,600
Wales for a long time with a hardcore

368
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:25,370
Christian group in their New South Wales

369
00:18:34,030 --> 00:18:30,290
Parliament yeah look I think when you

370
00:18:35,530 --> 00:18:34,040
look across every state and indeed at

371
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:35,540
the federal level particularly at the

372
00:18:40,810 --> 00:18:37,970
federal level look at this debacle

373
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:40,820
that's just occurred with the the

374
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:44,210
leadership of the nation yeah and a

375
00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:48,170
large chunk of that can be shaded home

376
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:51,790
to the Conservatives who are basically

377
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:55,010
most of them are extremely religious

378
00:19:01,060 --> 00:18:57,440
people and they're conservative

379
00:19:06,430 --> 00:19:01,070
Vijender is closely allied to their

380
00:19:10,029 --> 00:19:06,440
religious beliefs and so how can we have

381
00:19:14,169 --> 00:19:10,039
a different conversation one that is not

382
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:14,179
hijacked by religious beliefs on the

383
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:18,559
political stage one that gives a secular

384
00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:22,610
voice so that all beliefs and non belief

385
00:19:28,210 --> 00:19:25,220
systems have a right to be represented

386
00:19:30,999 --> 00:19:28,220
with equal merit on the political stage

387
00:19:35,169 --> 00:19:31,009
and how can people find out more about

388
00:19:39,330 --> 00:19:35,179
the national secular Lobby how do you

389
00:19:43,710 --> 00:19:39,340
find out about anything rounded Googler

390
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:43,720
I have I have to ask Paul you know

391
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:45,710
national secular Lobby

392
00:19:52,509 --> 00:19:50,000
we've got facebook page website Twitter

393
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:52,519
account Instagram you name it all the

394
00:19:56,289 --> 00:19:53,360
bells and whistles

395
00:19:59,289 --> 00:19:56,299
just plug national secular Lobby into

396
00:20:02,139 --> 00:19:59,299
your favorite browser and and you will

397
00:20:04,690 --> 00:20:02,149
find more than you need to know about us

398
00:20:06,669 --> 00:20:04,700
well adjunct associate professor Paul

399
00:20:08,409 --> 00:20:06,679
Willis I keep promising or threatening

400
00:20:10,690 --> 00:20:08,419
to come down to Adelaide to visit you

401
00:20:12,639 --> 00:20:10,700
I'm sure I'll do it one day but for now

402
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:12,649
thank you for appearing on the sceptic

403
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:15,440
zone always a pleasure and yeah there's

404
00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:17,210
a cellar full of red wine here waiting

405
00:20:34,890 --> 00:20:31,520
[Music]

406
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:34,900
calling all skeptics or listeners the

407
00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:37,450
you live and or near Glasgow are are you

408
00:20:42,060 --> 00:20:39,790
planning to visit sometime then you're

409
00:20:45,540 --> 00:20:42,070
in luck because the Glasgow skeptics

410
00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:45,550
have got your Monday nights sorted we

411
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:46,840
are committed to filling up every

412
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:49,510
available Monday night talks on science

413
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:52,240
and skepticism past speakers include

414
00:20:56,820 --> 00:20:54,370
Eugenie Scott Jerry Coyne make up

415
00:20:59,280 --> 00:20:56,830
Marshall Nate Phelps torment Cecil from

416
00:21:02,370 --> 00:20:59,290
cognitive dissonance PZ Myers Richard

417
00:21:04,650 --> 00:21:02,380
Wiseman EC drilling Noah Heath and Eli

418
00:21:07,650 --> 00:21:04,660
from the scathing atheist Simon Singh

419
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:07,660
Rebecca Watson and a multitude of local

420
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:10,570
academics and skeptics there's literally

421
00:21:13,620 --> 00:21:12,910
nothing better you can do on a Monday in

422
00:21:15,450 --> 00:21:13,630
Glasgow

423
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:15,460
it doesn't involve taking your clothes

424
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:18,400
off so come join us we've also got a

425
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:20,650
vibrant online community you can find us

426
00:21:25,230 --> 00:21:22,750
on Facebook Twitter and get involved

427
00:21:29,250 --> 00:21:25,240
with the discussion glasgow skeptics

428
00:21:29,260 --> 00:21:41,300
[Music]

429
00:21:41,310 --> 00:21:54,080
life is wild with Michelle Franklin

430
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:56,790
hello from Darwin's in the top end of

431
00:21:59,790 --> 00:21:57,730
the Northern Territory

432
00:22:01,860 --> 00:21:59,800
this is Michelle Franklin reporting in

433
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:01,870
with questions and maybe even some

434
00:22:15,150 --> 00:22:04,480
answers about our environment and the

435
00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:15,160
creatures that we share away so a friend

436
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:17,260
of a friend asked me recently whether

437
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:20,170
her pet cat was in danger of being eaten

438
00:22:27,810 --> 00:22:23,730
by the local wildlife or vice versa

439
00:22:29,660 --> 00:22:27,820
Maggie is a Maine [\h__\h] moggy and she

440
00:22:32,370 --> 00:22:29,670
recently moved here from South Africa

441
00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:32,380
she's been through quarantine and she's

442
00:22:37,740 --> 00:22:35,350
moved into a suburban house in Brisbane

443
00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:37,750
and all seems to be going pretty well so

444
00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:38,500
far

445
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:41,470
except that one day recently Maggie's

446
00:22:47,450 --> 00:22:44,170
owners discovered that they have a new

447
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:47,460
housemate a very large and non-venomous

448
00:22:54,690 --> 00:22:51,010
coastal carpet python I'm going to call

449
00:22:57,060 --> 00:22:54,700
her Sally the snake now of course

450
00:23:00,090 --> 00:22:57,070
Sally's owner is concerned for her pets

451
00:23:02,250 --> 00:23:00,100
welfare she has been thinking for a

452
00:23:04,770 --> 00:23:02,260
while now that she might build an

453
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:04,780
outdoor enclosure so that Maggie can

454
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,120
enjoyed the sunshine without any

455
00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:09,840
unwanted wildlife related incidents and

456
00:23:15,450 --> 00:23:13,180
the recent addition of Sally to the

457
00:23:17,390 --> 00:23:15,460
household has raised a couple of

458
00:23:20,730 --> 00:23:17,400
questions that I'd like to explore here

459
00:23:23,730 --> 00:23:20,740
question number one being is Maggie in

460
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:23,740
danger and the short answer is yes

461
00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:26,650
carpet snakes do eat cats but how often

462
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:29,680
does this happen and how much danger is

463
00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:33,490
Maggie actually in now I'm not a cat

464
00:23:38,370 --> 00:23:36,040
person so I had to google Maine [\h__\h] and

465
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:38,380
it turns out that they're a pretty big

466
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:40,930
breed of cat but the thing is carpet

467
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:42,610
snakes can get pretty big too and

468
00:23:50,980 --> 00:23:45,730
reports are that Sally is a pretty big

469
00:23:54,010 --> 00:23:50,990
girl so according to a 2001 study

470
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:54,020
published in wildlife research that

471
00:23:59,440 --> 00:23:57,530
looked at the stomach contents of 258

472
00:24:03,160 --> 00:23:59,450
carpet snakes which were removed from

473
00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:03,170
houses in Brisbane and Ipswich only two

474
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:05,390
of those snakes actually had recently

475
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,090
eaten a cat the rest of the prey items

476
00:24:14,590 --> 00:24:10,640
listed were various birds mammals and

477
00:24:17,919 --> 00:24:14,600
reptiles including 17 rats 8 mice for

478
00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:17,929
chickens 8 budgies 12 lovebirds a guinea

479
00:24:23,710 --> 00:24:20,750
pig and a fruit bat and the majority of

480
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:23,720
the prey appeared to be birds so this in

481
00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:25,610
general seems to tell us that carpet

482
00:24:30,250 --> 00:24:27,830
snakes are far more likely to eat the

483
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:30,260
local wildlife or the pest rats and mice

484
00:24:35,020 --> 00:24:33,530
rather than the pet cats but there's one

485
00:24:38,140 --> 00:24:35,030
small detail that makes a big difference

486
00:24:40,180 --> 00:24:38,150
here the size of the snake was

487
00:24:42,730 --> 00:24:40,190
correlated really strongly with the size

488
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:42,740
of the prey item so the smaller snakes

489
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:45,110
were eating mostly mice and rats and

490
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:47,690
parrots while the really big snakes were

491
00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:49,370
eating the opossums and chickens and

492
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:52,340
cats so not good news for Maggie the

493
00:24:55,210 --> 00:24:52,730
moggy

494
00:24:58,799 --> 00:24:55,220
and I think it's probably safe to say

495
00:25:01,870 --> 00:24:58,809
that Sally is in danger of being eaten

496
00:25:04,419 --> 00:25:01,880
question number two is Sally actually a

497
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:04,429
benefit to have around and there's a

498
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:06,250
couple of aspects to this question

499
00:25:11,710 --> 00:25:09,679
generally it's well accepted that having

500
00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:11,720
a carpet snake on your roof is good for

501
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:13,760
rodent control they the rats and the

502
00:25:18,820 --> 00:25:15,679
sometimes opossums and things like that

503
00:25:21,010 --> 00:25:18,830
and this is supported by the 2001

504
00:25:22,690 --> 00:25:21,020
stomach contents research that showed a

505
00:25:25,870 --> 00:25:22,700
large number of rodents being eaten by

506
00:25:28,299 --> 00:25:25,880
carpet snakes but what about other

507
00:25:31,030 --> 00:25:28,309
snakes there's lots of venomous snakes

508
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:31,040
that share our suburbs and sometimes our

509
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:33,200
homes and one of the common arguments

510
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:35,210
for keeping harmless snakes around is

511
00:25:40,930 --> 00:25:37,730
that they displace the venomous snakes

512
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:40,940
and make our environment safer for us so

513
00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:43,610
is Sally the snake going to protect her

514
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:45,620
new housemates from her less cuddly

515
00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:49,850
cousins and is the risk of Sally the

516
00:25:55,810 --> 00:25:53,809
snake eating Maggie the moggy offset by

517
00:25:58,620 --> 00:25:55,820
her presence reducing the risk of maybe

518
00:26:01,480 --> 00:25:58,630
encountering say Barry the brown snake

519
00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:01,490
now I've heard this claim before it

520
00:26:04,180 --> 00:26:03,230
seems fairly reasonable to think that

521
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:04,190
snakes might be

522
00:26:09,249 --> 00:26:06,799
afraid of each other but when I went

523
00:26:11,529 --> 00:26:09,259
searching for evidence to back this up I

524
00:26:13,539 --> 00:26:11,539
couldn't find any there were studies

525
00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:13,549
that listed different types of benefits

526
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:15,980
from having copper snakes around but

527
00:26:20,409 --> 00:26:17,720
none that I could find said anything

528
00:26:22,869 --> 00:26:20,419
about them deterring venomous snakes so

529
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:22,879
I turned to an expert dr. Roger asam

530
00:26:28,210 --> 00:26:25,850
aware is a herpetologist who specializes

531
00:26:31,090 --> 00:26:28,220
in behavioral and evolutionary ecology

532
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:31,100
of reptiles he said that he doesn't know

533
00:26:34,810 --> 00:26:33,289
of any scientific evidence supporting

534
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:34,820
the idea that carpet snakes keep

535
00:26:39,940 --> 00:26:38,480
venomous snakes away and in fact for

536
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:39,950
many of the large venomous snakes

537
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:42,080
pythons are actually a source of food

538
00:26:47,649 --> 00:26:45,110
and since pythons generally don't eat

539
00:26:49,629 --> 00:26:47,659
other snakes there really isn't any

540
00:26:52,869 --> 00:26:49,639
reason for them to be worried about a

541
00:26:55,060 --> 00:26:52,879
carpet snake in the area now absence of

542
00:26:58,090 --> 00:26:55,070
evidence is not necessarily evidence of

543
00:27:00,759 --> 00:26:58,100
absence but I feel pretty confident that

544
00:27:02,409 --> 00:27:00,769
if this was a real thing someone would

545
00:27:04,629 --> 00:27:02,419
have found evidence and written about it

546
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:04,639
so I'm going to assume that in this case

547
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:08,330
it's an urban myth and while Maggie the

548
00:27:13,629 --> 00:27:10,970
moggy is in danger of being eaten by

549
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:13,639
Sally the snake it's probably reasonable

550
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:16,159
to assume that berry the brown snake is

551
00:27:21,310 --> 00:27:18,080
not concerned about Sally being there

552
00:27:22,740 --> 00:27:21,320
and he's going to show up regardless but

553
00:27:25,450 --> 00:27:22,750
now the plot thickens

554
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:25,460
Sally's only been basking intermittently

555
00:27:30,340 --> 00:27:27,679
in the mornings and then disappearing

556
00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:30,350
for the rest of the day this behavior is

557
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:32,840
common in snakes that are incubating

558
00:27:37,149 --> 00:27:34,850
eggs what they'll do is they'll go out

559
00:27:39,610 --> 00:27:37,159
in the mornings absorb a bunch of heat

560
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:39,620
take that back to their nest and use it

561
00:27:43,419 --> 00:27:41,570
to incubate the eggs because they can't

562
00:27:45,789 --> 00:27:43,429
produce the heat themselves they use the

563
00:27:48,639 --> 00:27:45,799
the sunlight energy to to warm their

564
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:48,649
eggs up for the sake of this story we're

565
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:49,970
going to assume that this is what's

566
00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:52,250
happening here and Sally is about to

567
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,590
become a new mum this introduces some

568
00:27:59,230 --> 00:27:56,960
complications to the situation if

569
00:28:01,960 --> 00:27:59,240
there's going to be new baby snakes

570
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:01,970
around soon we're gonna land on question

571
00:28:08,830 --> 00:28:05,360
number three is Maggie going to eat the

572
00:28:11,470 --> 00:28:08,840
baby snakes so according to Maggie's

573
00:28:13,470 --> 00:28:11,480
owner she's not a killer and this is why

574
00:28:16,690 --> 00:28:13,480
she's been allowed outside up until now

575
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:16,700
when I hear this my immediate response

576
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:17,940
is to claim

577
00:28:22,669 --> 00:28:20,610
yes I've grown up with the ingrained

578
00:28:24,999 --> 00:28:22,679
understanding that cats are not to be

579
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:25,009
allowed outside no matter what because

580
00:28:29,930 --> 00:28:27,210
no matter what their owners think

581
00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:29,940
they're all killers and it occurs to me

582
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:32,100
now that I actually have no idea if this

583
00:28:36,619 --> 00:28:34,490
is true so I started digging around

584
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:36,629
trying to find some research that

585
00:28:41,899 --> 00:28:39,450
confirm my preconceived ideas about cat

586
00:28:43,789 --> 00:28:41,909
behavior and yeah I know that's not how

587
00:28:46,659 --> 00:28:43,799
you're supposed to do it but the thing

588
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:46,669
is I didn't find what I was looking for

589
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:48,960
there's stacks of resources out there

590
00:28:53,690 --> 00:28:51,600
that explain the devastating impact of

591
00:28:55,789 --> 00:28:53,700
stray cats and feral cats on the native

592
00:28:57,799 --> 00:28:55,799
wildlife in Australia but when you

593
00:29:00,350 --> 00:28:57,809
narrow it down specifically to pet cats

594
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,360
that are well cared for and fed daily

595
00:29:06,019 --> 00:29:03,120
the research becomes pretty sketchy

596
00:29:06,649 --> 00:29:06,029
there were several studies that looked

597
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:06,659
promising

598
00:29:11,659 --> 00:29:09,600
that stated numbers of different species

599
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:11,669
that were killed and percentages of cats

600
00:29:16,610 --> 00:29:14,370
that actually did the killing but the

601
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:16,620
studies suggested that there's a large

602
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:18,960
subset of cats that actually don't kill

603
00:29:23,210 --> 00:29:21,360
my mind was blonde for about four

604
00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:23,220
seconds until I scrolled down to the

605
00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:25,740
methodology and learned that a lot of

606
00:29:31,159 --> 00:29:27,809
this research is based on data that was

607
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:31,169
gathered by asking cat owners how many

608
00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:32,610
times they remembered they're kept

609
00:29:37,159 --> 00:29:34,320
bringing dead things home in the past

610
00:29:38,779 --> 00:29:37,169
year thanks for trying guys but I'm

611
00:29:40,460 --> 00:29:38,789
looking for something a bit more solid

612
00:29:43,310 --> 00:29:40,470
than what the cat owners say they

613
00:29:47,090 --> 00:29:43,320
remember there was some research that

614
00:29:49,639 --> 00:29:47,100
used cat mounted video cameras and that

615
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:49,649
suggested higher predation rates than

616
00:29:54,529 --> 00:29:52,110
what the surveys reported but I couldn't

617
00:29:56,810 --> 00:29:54,539
find much solid evidence for or against

618
00:29:59,899 --> 00:29:56,820
the claim that some cats kill and some

619
00:30:03,230 --> 00:29:59,909
cats don't so once again I turned to an

620
00:30:05,509 --> 00:30:03,240
expert for some guidance ranae piccolo

621
00:30:07,669 --> 00:30:05,519
is an honors student at Griffith

622
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:07,679
University and her research looks

623
00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:10,370
specifically at well cared for pet cats

624
00:30:16,369 --> 00:30:13,769
she's gathering up two samples from cats

625
00:30:18,619 --> 00:30:16,379
that have been allowed to roam free but

626
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:18,629
were also fed daily and she's checking

627
00:30:24,049 --> 00:30:21,840
the samples for DNA to identify what

628
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:24,059
species are actually being eaten by the

629
00:30:28,940 --> 00:30:26,850
cats this is good because it doesn't

630
00:30:31,009 --> 00:30:28,950
rely on humans seeing what's going on

631
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:31,019
and it doesn't interfere with the cats

632
00:30:33,710 --> 00:30:31,440
purr

633
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:33,720
in order to collect the data now the

634
00:30:36,860 --> 00:30:36,240
research isn't complete yet but once

635
00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:36,870
it's finished

636
00:30:40,460 --> 00:30:38,700
Rene should be able to tell us a lot

637
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,470
more about what cats are actually

638
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:42,720
killing and consuming above and beyond

639
00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:44,490
what their owners tell us that they

640
00:30:49,249 --> 00:30:47,070
remember seeing in the meantime

641
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:49,259
Rene was kind enough to send me some of

642
00:30:52,930 --> 00:30:50,610
the background reading that she's

643
00:30:56,090 --> 00:30:52,940
gathered in preparing her research and

644
00:30:58,190 --> 00:30:56,100
overall it seems pretty clear that well

645
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:58,200
cared-for pet cats are killing wildlife

646
00:31:03,889 --> 00:31:01,200
what isn't clear is the extent to which

647
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:03,899
it's happening and the impact that it's

648
00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:06,480
happening on wildlife populations so to

649
00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:09,000
work out what to do I looked at an

650
00:31:17,659 --> 00:31:12,769
argument by Calvert Oh was published in

651
00:31:20,299 --> 00:31:17,669
2011 in biological conservation and it

652
00:31:21,919 --> 00:31:20,309
argues that the situation warrants the

653
00:31:25,220 --> 00:31:21,929
application of the precautionary

654
00:31:27,409 --> 00:31:25,230
principle so this mandates action to

655
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:27,419
protect the environment when there is a

656
00:31:32,889 --> 00:31:29,850
scientifically plausible but unproven

657
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:32,899
risk so this provides a rationale for

658
00:31:37,779 --> 00:31:34,980
immediate intervention to protect

659
00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:37,789
wildlife from pet cats while we await

660
00:31:43,340 --> 00:31:41,460
definitive studies so at the end of the

661
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,350
day we've got a lot of things to

662
00:31:47,539 --> 00:31:45,600
consider and moving forward we need to

663
00:31:50,060 --> 00:31:47,549
make a decision about how to manage the

664
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:50,070
situation of Maggie and Sally house

665
00:31:55,850 --> 00:31:53,610
sharing and decide what to do there are

666
00:31:57,889 --> 00:31:55,860
four main perspectives to consider here

667
00:32:00,529 --> 00:31:57,899
and you can choose your course of action

668
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:00,539
depending on whether you value highest

669
00:32:07,009 --> 00:32:03,690
the needs of the snake the cat the human

670
00:32:09,289 --> 00:32:07,019
or the ecosystem and there's four

671
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:09,299
possible courses of action that I can

672
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:13,200
think of which are one do nothing to

673
00:32:19,129 --> 00:32:15,330
call the snake capture I have the snake

674
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:19,139
and her eggs removed three rehome the

675
00:32:26,749 --> 00:32:23,970
cat or four contain the cat so I made up

676
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:26,759
a punnett square of actions versus

677
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:29,460
impacts to see if I could come up with

678
00:32:34,940 --> 00:32:32,159
an optimal solution might not be the

679
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:34,950
best way to communicate through an audio

680
00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:38,159
medium but I'll do my best so I've put

681
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:40,470
the four possible actions down the left

682
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:43,049
side and the four points of view along

683
00:32:46,909 --> 00:32:45,210
the top and you can choose

684
00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:46,919
which action you want to consider and

685
00:32:52,669 --> 00:32:49,740
then cross-check that against each of

686
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:52,679
the four perspectives and decide which

687
00:32:57,740 --> 00:32:55,679
one has the most positive outcomes if

688
00:33:00,799 --> 00:32:57,750
you choose option number one and do

689
00:33:01,399 --> 00:33:00,809
nothing all four perspectives are taking

690
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:01,409
a risk

691
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:04,049
the snake risks losing her babies the

692
00:33:10,190 --> 00:33:07,049
cat risks being eaten human risks losing

693
00:33:13,340 --> 00:33:10,200
her pet and the ecosystem risks the

694
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:13,350
unknown impacts of a foreign predator if

695
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:15,330
you choose option two and have the snake

696
00:33:20,419 --> 00:33:17,730
and her eggs removed the cat and the

697
00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:20,429
human are both benefited while the snake

698
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:22,230
and the ecosystem are disadvantaged

699
00:33:26,269 --> 00:33:24,090
because removing the snake will

700
00:33:28,370 --> 00:33:26,279
essentially reduce the available habitat

701
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:28,380
for snakes to inhabit meaning that

702
00:33:32,450 --> 00:33:30,240
there'll be increased competition for

703
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:32,460
resources in their spaces that are left

704
00:33:37,970 --> 00:33:35,880
available to them according to a 2001

705
00:33:40,460 --> 00:33:37,980
study published in biological

706
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:40,470
conservation over a ten-year period

707
00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:43,710
leading up to the study 11,000 snakes

708
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:45,630
were removed from people's homes in New

709
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:48,690
South Wales alone 20% of these were

710
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:52,110
carpet snakes on top of this 11,000

711
00:33:57,799 --> 00:33:55,200
lizards were also removed and most of

712
00:34:01,250 --> 00:33:57,809
them looked a bit like snakes that's

713
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:01,260
over 2,000 removals per year or roughly

714
00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:05,360
6 per day now I wasn't able to find any

715
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:07,620
translocation research specific to

716
00:34:12,050 --> 00:34:09,450
carpet snakes but there was a

717
00:34:15,470 --> 00:34:12,060
comprehensive report by dr. Jeff short

718
00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:15,480
in 2009 that looked at a whole range of

719
00:34:22,909 --> 00:34:18,270
australian vertebrates and it suggested

720
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:22,919
that 28% of translocations failed due to

721
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:25,290
a whole range of reasons like being

722
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:28,950
eaten at the release site for 40% of

723
00:34:36,349 --> 00:34:32,639
cases the outcome wasn't known and for

724
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:36,359
32 percent of cases the outcome was

725
00:34:42,589 --> 00:34:39,330
actually known to be successful so this

726
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:42,599
seems like a fairly high risk for poor

727
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:44,940
Sally and her babies if you choose

728
00:34:50,510 --> 00:34:48,510
option 3 and remove the cat Sally the

729
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,520
snake will benefit from a safer home

730
00:34:55,730 --> 00:34:52,320
although she may miss out on one decent

731
00:34:57,859 --> 00:34:55,740
meal I'm sure she'll be fine but it's

732
00:34:59,000 --> 00:34:57,869
not a good outcome for Maggie who loses

733
00:35:02,570 --> 00:34:59,010
her home or

734
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:02,580
Maggie's owner who loses her pet and the

735
00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:04,710
impact on the ecosystem depends very

736
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:09,060
much on what happens to Maggie if she

737
00:35:13,070 --> 00:35:11,010
moves to a different home but she's

738
00:35:15,740 --> 00:35:13,080
still allowed to roam then her impact is

739
00:35:18,350 --> 00:35:15,750
just shifted elsewhere this leaves us

740
00:35:20,350 --> 00:35:18,360
with option four which is the only one

741
00:35:24,110 --> 00:35:20,360
that ticks all the boxes containing

742
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:24,120
Maggie either inside the house or in a

743
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:26,490
purpose-built outdoor enclosure will

744
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:28,890
ensure the safety of the cat the snake

745
00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:31,290
and the rest of the Wildlife one

746
00:35:35,540 --> 00:35:33,510
possible downside here is that if

747
00:35:37,820 --> 00:35:35,550
Maggie's not happy being kept inside the

748
00:35:39,850 --> 00:35:37,830
house then building a large enough

749
00:35:42,830 --> 00:35:39,860
outdoor enclosure to keep her happy is

750
00:35:45,290 --> 00:35:42,840
possibly going to be expensive so this

751
00:35:47,570 --> 00:35:45,300
decision really would depend on the

752
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:47,580
behavior of the individual cat and the

753
00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:50,210
resources available to the owner so

754
00:35:53,930 --> 00:35:52,140
given what we've learned here today I

755
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:53,940
think it's fairly clear that the best

756
00:35:59,180 --> 00:35:56,160
choice to benefit all involved is to

757
00:36:01,700 --> 00:35:59,190
confine the cat indoors or if you can

758
00:36:03,890 --> 00:36:01,710
build an outdoor enclosure where the cat

759
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:03,900
is not able to interact with the

760
00:36:08,930 --> 00:36:06,960
wildlife this option also provides the

761
00:36:10,730 --> 00:36:08,940
added benefit of protecting Maggie from

762
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:10,740
all the nebulous risks that are

763
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:16,530
associated with roaming outside thank

764
00:36:21,260 --> 00:36:18,930
you to retire and Renee for sharing your

765
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:21,270
knowledge and experience and also to

766
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:23,850
Joanne who asked the question and who

767
00:36:27,980 --> 00:36:25,530
cared enough about her local wildlife

768
00:36:31,790 --> 00:36:27,990
and her pet to want the best answer for

769
00:36:34,580 --> 00:36:31,800
all involved link to the references that

770
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:34,590
I used will be in the show notes and I'm

771
00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:36,720
looking forward to hearing the outcomes

772
00:36:41,390 --> 00:36:39,150
of Renee's research which shall be

773
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:41,400
complete in the next few months but keep

774
00:36:46,250 --> 00:36:43,200
you all updated if there's any new

775
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:46,260
information that comes to light and good

776
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:46,920
luck to Maggie

777
00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:49,170
I hope you find a way to live in harmony

778
00:36:53,450 --> 00:36:51,900
with your new housemate also best of

779
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:53,460
luck to Sally with your new brood of

780
00:36:58,850 --> 00:36:56,040
babies I hope they all find homes where

781
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:58,860
the owner is as caring and conscientious

782
00:37:12,260 --> 00:37:00,320
as your landlord is

783
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:12,270
[Music]

784
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:15,130
the skeptic magazine the journal from

785
00:37:20,460 --> 00:37:18,280
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

786
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:20,470
the world's second oldest skeptical

787
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:21,250
magazine

788
00:37:35,850 --> 00:37:32,360
[Music]

789
00:37:54,090 --> 00:37:35,860
free to download the skeptic magazine

790
00:37:56,430 --> 00:37:54,100
from Australian skeptics and now we

791
00:37:58,230 --> 00:37:56,440
bring you part three of speed meet the

792
00:38:06,930 --> 00:37:58,240
scientists held the Powerhouse Museum

793
00:38:09,090 --> 00:38:06,940
here in Sydney during science week give

794
00:38:11,820 --> 00:38:09,100
me that old fashioned archaeology who do

795
00:38:12,690 --> 00:38:11,830
we have here my name is James hunter I'm

796
00:38:16,070 --> 00:38:12,700
with the Australian National Maritime

797
00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:16,080
Museum and what's your area of expertise

798
00:38:21,330 --> 00:38:19,390
i straddle two things one is maritime

799
00:38:23,940 --> 00:38:21,340
archaeology any other is naval history

800
00:38:25,290 --> 00:38:23,950
so I'm the museum's naval curator and

801
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:25,300
we're talking about the museum which is

802
00:38:28,110 --> 00:38:27,850
just down the way Zinedine Darling

803
00:38:29,490 --> 00:38:28,120
Harbour

804
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:29,500
that's correct yep we're the ones down

805
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:30,930
at the end of the end of the road there

806
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:33,130
yeah I'm just here representing the

807
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:34,960
museum man talking a bit about maritime

808
00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:36,970
archaeology so I'm hoping people will

809
00:38:41,550 --> 00:38:39,790
come along and ask me what I do and I

810
00:38:43,620 --> 00:38:41,560
will tell them and hopefully not put

811
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:43,630
them to sleep well that's that's always

812
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:46,240
a good idea I think now there must be

813
00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:49,150
quite a very rich history of this in the

814
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:50,830
Sydney area just alone I would imagine

815
00:38:56,430 --> 00:38:53,890
that is correct yes there are several

816
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:56,440
shipwrecks in the harbour and just

817
00:38:59,680 --> 00:38:58,090
outside the harbour some of them quite

818
00:39:02,049 --> 00:38:59,690
significant

819
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:02,059
in fact only about two weeks ago we were

820
00:39:07,390 --> 00:39:04,010
doing a dive on the Dunbar which is

821
00:39:10,770 --> 00:39:07,400
wrecked just outside the heads and it

822
00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:10,780
wrecked in 1857 it was an immigrant ship

823
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:13,369
that came to Sydney at the beginning of

824
00:39:19,210 --> 00:39:16,160
the gold rush in Australia and it

825
00:39:21,309 --> 00:39:19,220
wrecked and everyone save one person

826
00:39:24,130 --> 00:39:21,319
perished all right so it was one of

827
00:39:26,289 --> 00:39:24,140
Sydney's largest loss of life in a

828
00:39:29,380 --> 00:39:26,299
single maritime event when you say just

829
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,390
outside the heads how far outside if you

830
00:39:34,089 --> 00:39:31,760
go out the heads hang a right to go

831
00:39:37,450 --> 00:39:34,099
south and you go down probably about a

832
00:39:39,339 --> 00:39:37,460
kilometre that's how close I'm very

833
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:39,349
close to the shore incredibly close to

834
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:42,049
shore in fact parts of that wreck site

835
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:44,480
are up against the cliff that's close

836
00:39:49,690 --> 00:39:46,910
yeah and what was the major problem the

837
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:49,700
the dangerous area it sank or the fact

838
00:39:54,130 --> 00:39:51,010
that people couldn't swim

839
00:39:55,450 --> 00:39:54,140
well the wreck itself was a result of

840
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:55,460
the fact that ship was caught in a gale

841
00:39:59,819 --> 00:39:57,530
they were trying to get in through the

842
00:40:03,160 --> 00:39:59,829
heads and the weather was really bad and

843
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,170
the captain of the ship thought that he

844
00:40:07,089 --> 00:40:05,599
had he had tact at the right time to go

845
00:40:09,849 --> 00:40:07,099
through the heads and in fact he missed

846
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:09,859
it because of the conditions and he had

847
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:11,450
tact and put the ship right into the

848
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:13,250
cliffs he basically drove the ship into

849
00:40:19,210 --> 00:40:15,650
the cliffs and it broke up very quickly

850
00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:19,220
you know high seas ship broke up people

851
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:21,049
couldn't swim they were wearing heavy

852
00:40:26,109 --> 00:40:25,130
clothing and people drowned the one who

853
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,119
survived

854
00:40:30,279 --> 00:40:28,640
the reason he survives was because he

855
00:40:31,930 --> 00:40:30,289
was up in the rigging he'd climbed up

856
00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:31,940
into the rigging as the ship started to

857
00:40:36,430 --> 00:40:34,220
break up and a wave basically caught him

858
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:36,440
and just slammed him into the side of

859
00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:39,440
the cliff and he grabbed on and managed

860
00:40:43,690 --> 00:40:41,569
to find a handhold and that's what saved

861
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:43,700
it that's that's it it's like a

862
00:40:48,130 --> 00:40:46,250
Hollywood story idiot that's that's a I

863
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,140
mean I'm visualizing and I'm sure all my

864
00:40:52,420 --> 00:40:50,240
listeners out to that's that's amazing

865
00:40:54,370 --> 00:40:52,430
and the terrible thing was the guy was

866
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:54,380
there for two days nobody knew he

867
00:40:59,289 --> 00:40:57,680
survives he he managed to kind of when

868
00:41:01,779 --> 00:40:59,299
the conditions calm down a bit he kind

869
00:41:04,089 --> 00:41:01,789
of shimmied across the cliffs and he

870
00:41:05,590 --> 00:41:04,099
found a spot like a little sort of ledge

871
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:05,600
that stuck out where he

872
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:08,240
sit down and yeah he was there for two

873
00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:10,130
days nobody knew he was there and then

874
00:41:14,170 --> 00:41:11,630
someone who happened to be looking over

875
00:41:16,210 --> 00:41:14,180
the cliff saw him and kind of heard him

876
00:41:18,670 --> 00:41:16,220
he was very feeble by this point he's

877
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:18,680
dehydrated hungry and he was yelling for

878
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:20,510
help and somebody saw him and so they

879
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:23,330
actually were able to rescue him and I'm

880
00:41:27,580 --> 00:41:25,970
sure there are many stories I mean

881
00:41:29,410 --> 00:41:27,590
that's a dramatic one but there must be

882
00:41:31,540 --> 00:41:29,420
many stories of other shipwrecks or near

883
00:41:33,820 --> 00:41:31,550
disasters or all sorts of things just in

884
00:41:36,850 --> 00:41:33,830
the Sydney area that's right many many

885
00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:36,860
many many many many people yes ships

886
00:41:42,190 --> 00:41:38,630
hitting cliffs ships colliding with each

887
00:41:44,590 --> 00:41:42,200
other ships catching fire ships whoops I

888
00:41:46,180 --> 00:41:44,600
just drove it into the sand Bank you

889
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:46,190
know that sort of thing it runs the

890
00:41:51,970 --> 00:41:49,280
gamut from very dramatic horrific loss

891
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:51,980
of life to just benign sort of whoopsies

892
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:54,290
Wow and where can people find out more

893
00:41:59,050 --> 00:41:56,720
about this fascinating history great

894
00:42:00,880 --> 00:41:59,060
place to go is the Maritime Museum yes I

895
00:42:03,610 --> 00:42:00,890
work there and yeah I'm giving a pitch

896
00:42:04,990 --> 00:42:03,620
but sure we've got lots of collections

897
00:42:07,330 --> 00:42:05,000
related to these sorts of maritime

898
00:42:09,580 --> 00:42:07,340
disasters we've got a library with lots

899
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:09,590
of books and documents and be a good

900
00:42:13,630 --> 00:42:10,970
place to go and for those people

901
00:42:15,580 --> 00:42:13,640
visiting Sydney it's a very conveniently

902
00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:15,590
placed in darling harbour which is near

903
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:17,630
the downtown area but if you just google

904
00:42:21,340 --> 00:42:19,490
the Maritime Museum and Sydney you'll

905
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:21,350
easily find that all they have a website

906
00:42:29,260 --> 00:42:25,910
I presume they do yes some AM m dot gov

907
00:42:31,610 --> 00:42:29,270
dot a you thank you very much no problem

908
00:42:34,110 --> 00:42:31,620
nice talking to you

909
00:42:37,740 --> 00:42:34,120
from one extreme to the other hello

910
00:42:38,940 --> 00:42:37,750
hello well it's hardly an extreme you're

911
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:38,950
sitting right next to the guy I was just

912
00:42:43,650 --> 00:42:41,770
talking to who do we have here sir my

913
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:43,660
name is Karen Bowl I'm a researcher at

914
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:45,130
the University of New South Wales and

915
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:47,290
Sydney and what brings you here to meet

916
00:42:51,470 --> 00:42:48,640
the scientists Knight you want to meet a

917
00:42:55,410 --> 00:42:51,480
scientist I'm meeting many scientists

918
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:55,420
I'm here because I'm incredibly excited

919
00:42:59,070 --> 00:42:57,130
about what I do actually and I realized

920
00:43:01,290 --> 00:42:59,080
you know what do I have to what do I

921
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:01,300
have to give I don't cure cancer I don't

922
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:03,970
necessarily you know I don't necessarily

923
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:05,890
invent new things but I can share this

924
00:43:09,450 --> 00:43:07,510
incredible passion and this

925
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:09,460
understanding of who we are and where we

926
00:43:13,530 --> 00:43:10,090
came from

927
00:43:15,810 --> 00:43:13,540
in other words evolutionary biology

928
00:43:17,850 --> 00:43:15,820
evolutionary biology absolutely so my

929
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:17,860
background I was really fascinated when

930
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:19,690
I was kid I read this book actually not

931
00:43:25,380 --> 00:43:22,330
not that much of a kid I read this book

932
00:43:28,050 --> 00:43:25,390
clan of the cave bear and it talked

933
00:43:30,450 --> 00:43:28,060
about absolutely and it sort of raised

934
00:43:32,130 --> 00:43:30,460
this idea about hybridization so for

935
00:43:35,070 --> 00:43:32,140
anyone who doesn't know interbreeding

936
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:35,080
between our species and between the and

937
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:36,400
the tolls or whatever other species

938
00:43:40,830 --> 00:43:37,510
might have been running around at the

939
00:43:42,990 --> 00:43:40,840
time and it caught me and then as I was

940
00:43:44,580 --> 00:43:43,000
going through my undergraduate studies a

941
00:43:46,890 --> 00:43:44,590
couple of papers started coming out

942
00:43:48,540 --> 00:43:46,900
about about DNA

943
00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:48,550
kinks of the end of total DNA in our own

944
00:43:53,370 --> 00:43:51,280
genomes and it just fascinated me so I

945
00:43:54,990 --> 00:43:53,380
thought do we have any do we have any

946
00:43:56,610 --> 00:43:55,000
evidence for this do we have any fossils

947
00:43:59,700 --> 00:43:56,620
do we have any any evidence of this

948
00:44:02,280 --> 00:43:59,710
hybridization going on and there are a

949
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:02,290
lot of fossils where they think that it

950
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:03,610
may be the case but we don't know we

951
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:05,410
didn't know what we were looking for so

952
00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:08,710
I went and collected an awful lot of

953
00:44:13,650 --> 00:44:10,030
monkey skulls

954
00:44:16,830 --> 00:44:13,660
we're aware from all over Asia so

955
00:44:17,940 --> 00:44:16,840
there's a genus known as macaques so

956
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:17,950
there are a lot of different kinds of

957
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:21,010
macaques my my favorite study species

958
00:44:24,650 --> 00:44:22,510
but the Japanese macaque so there's no

959
00:44:27,180 --> 00:44:24,660
monkey that hangs out in the sauna

960
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:27,190
they're very cute and it's very very

961
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:29,170
easy to tell the hybrids between them

962
00:44:32,430 --> 00:44:30,610
and any other species because other

963
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:32,440
macaques have tails but the snow monkeys

964
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:33,130
don't

965
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:34,690
so you just look for anything with an

966
00:44:38,340 --> 00:44:36,130
intermediate tail and you realize that

967
00:44:40,050 --> 00:44:38,350
had something Funky's going on so by

968
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:40,060
looking at these hybridizing macaques we

969
00:44:44,610 --> 00:44:41,650
were able to get a better understanding

970
00:44:46,140 --> 00:44:44,620
of what hybridization does to the

971
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:46,150
skeleton so what it does to the skull

972
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:49,510
the two species genomes get together and

973
00:44:53,070 --> 00:44:51,850
they're mostly compatible but there are

974
00:44:56,070 --> 00:44:53,080
a few little mistakes along the way

975
00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:56,080
there you get these little minor

976
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,570
developmental abnormalities so things

977
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:00,160
like an extra tooth or a missing tooth

978
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:02,410
or a you know a little bone out of place

979
00:45:07,770 --> 00:45:05,680
in the skull and we took all of that and

980
00:45:09,210 --> 00:45:07,780
applied it to humans and we're hoping

981
00:45:11,070 --> 00:45:09,220
they've got a better understanding and

982
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:11,080
we may be able to identify hybrid

983
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:16,090
fossils in the future Wow every time I

984
00:45:20,250 --> 00:45:18,490
sit down my mind is completely blown by

985
00:45:22,350 --> 00:45:20,260
what I'm hearing that's absolutely

986
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:22,360
fascinating but what are you doing right

987
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:24,970
at the moment okay so I'm currently

988
00:45:29,970 --> 00:45:27,760
working for the inspiration Center for

989
00:45:31,350 --> 00:45:29,980
biodiversity and heritage and we're

990
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:31,360
really interested in in basically

991
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:32,410
everything that's happened in Australia

992
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:35,920
over the last 200,000 years so my

993
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:37,870
particular project we're actually

994
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:40,510
working at some some caves in Borneo

995
00:45:44,490 --> 00:45:42,610
which is still relevant to Australia so

996
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:44,500
we're looking at the population the

997
00:45:47,550 --> 00:45:45,760
arrival of the first humans into

998
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:47,560
Australia and the spread of migration

999
00:45:52,050 --> 00:45:50,170
like this so we're working at this cave

1000
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:52,060
system called the Nia caves in Borneo

1001
00:45:56,460 --> 00:45:54,970
and it's got some of the oldest human

1002
00:45:57,690 --> 00:45:56,470
remains in Southeast Asia

1003
00:45:58,860 --> 00:45:57,700
at the time when they were first

1004
00:46:01,320 --> 00:45:58,870
discovered they were the oldest human

1005
00:46:03,390 --> 00:46:01,330
remains in the world

1006
00:46:05,580 --> 00:46:03,400
and they were quite controversially

1007
00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:05,590
linked to Tasmanian Aboriginal

1008
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:09,250
Australians we've been going back and

1009
00:46:13,050 --> 00:46:10,720
we've been reanalyzing some of the bones

1010
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:13,060
were found there and doing some new

1011
00:46:17,340 --> 00:46:14,710
excavations so looking for some new

1012
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:17,350
things and my project particularly I'm

1013
00:46:22,410 --> 00:46:20,290
extracting the protein from the bones so

1014
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:22,420
you may have heard of ancient DNA it's

1015
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:25,810
become quite a big field but what most

1016
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:27,910
people don't realize is that the protein

1017
00:46:31,470 --> 00:46:29,680
in your bones preserves better than DNA

1018
00:46:35,550 --> 00:46:31,480
and it can probably tell you everything

1019
00:46:38,670 --> 00:46:35,560
that DNA can I did not know that it's

1020
00:46:40,410 --> 00:46:38,680
it's quite a new field so DNA tends to

1021
00:46:42,270 --> 00:46:40,420
degrade quite quickly in places like

1022
00:46:44,460 --> 00:46:42,280
Southeast Asia where it's quite warm and

1023
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:44,470
quite wet but the protein gets bound up

1024
00:46:47,850 --> 00:46:45,970
in the minerals in your bones and it can

1025
00:46:50,190 --> 00:46:47,860
stick around for a lot longer and where

1026
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:50,200
DNA tells you about what you could look

1027
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:53,770
like protein shows you the end result so

1028
00:46:58,140 --> 00:46:55,810
the interaction between your DNA and the

1029
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:58,150
environment so you can see what diseases

1030
00:47:01,770 --> 00:47:00,160
you had what you're eating what you look

1031
00:47:03,870 --> 00:47:01,780
like who you were whether you are male

1032
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:03,880
or female how old you were potentially

1033
00:47:08,490 --> 00:47:06,400
so anything we can get from DNA we can

1034
00:47:09,930 --> 00:47:08,500
probably get from protein and it's gonna

1035
00:47:13,170 --> 00:47:09,940
last a lot longer in a tropical

1036
00:47:16,350 --> 00:47:13,180
environment I need to take a deep breath

1037
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:16,360
after that that was so interesting and

1038
00:47:21,150 --> 00:47:18,130
where can people find out more about you

1039
00:47:23,580 --> 00:47:21,160
or what you do so our research center

1040
00:47:25,740 --> 00:47:23,590
has a fantastic website actually if you

1041
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:25,750
just google Australia's epic story you

1042
00:47:28,770 --> 00:47:27,280
will find our website and it's got

1043
00:47:31,020 --> 00:47:28,780
information about all of the human

1044
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:31,030
evolution work all of the Australian

1045
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:33,250
Aboriginal archaeology work and also the

1046
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:35,200
biodiversity stuff

1047
00:47:42,370 --> 00:47:38,240
Australia's epic story really a story

1048
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:42,380
well thank you very much thank you we

1049
00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:48,950
well I think I've come to the right

1050
00:47:53,930 --> 00:47:50,880
table folks not only is there champagne

1051
00:47:58,339 --> 00:47:53,940
on the table there's a rat brain a human

1052
00:47:59,960 --> 00:47:58,349
brain and models of Homer Simpson this

1053
00:48:00,440 --> 00:47:59,970
must be a winning table who do we have

1054
00:48:03,170 --> 00:48:00,450
here

1055
00:48:06,339 --> 00:48:03,180
I'm Kelsey Zimmerman I work at UNSW and

1056
00:48:09,140 --> 00:48:06,349
Katherine Baker I also work at UNSW and

1057
00:48:10,849 --> 00:48:09,150
you'll have to tell me what why do I see

1058
00:48:12,979 --> 00:48:10,859
a rat's brain in the human brain and all

1059
00:48:14,479 --> 00:48:12,989
these other things well we look at the

1060
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:14,489
rat brain to study what happens during

1061
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:17,249
adolescence adolescent humans and all of

1062
00:48:20,059 --> 00:48:18,720
all of the other adolescent species are

1063
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:20,069
kind of screwed up and how they learn

1064
00:48:22,969 --> 00:48:21,599
and unlearned fear and they're very

1065
00:48:25,309 --> 00:48:22,979
susceptible to developing things like

1066
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:25,319
anxiety and depression so what we do is

1067
00:48:30,049 --> 00:48:27,930
we use rep rings like this one and rats

1068
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:30,059
like our little Mulder here to study

1069
00:48:33,319 --> 00:48:31,650
what happens in the brain when animals

1070
00:48:35,269 --> 00:48:33,329
learn fear and what happens when they

1071
00:48:36,650 --> 00:48:35,279
try to unlearn it and what we can learn

1072
00:48:38,660 --> 00:48:36,660
from that is how the brain is different

1073
00:48:40,009 --> 00:48:38,670
in adolescence and hopefully from that

1074
00:48:41,359 --> 00:48:40,019
we can find different treatments that

1075
00:48:43,849 --> 00:48:41,369
are more effective at treating anxiety

1076
00:48:46,099 --> 00:48:43,859
and depression and young people right

1077
00:48:48,410 --> 00:48:46,109
right so that's why we and I'm holding

1078
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:48,420
up here folks it's a little Little flask

1079
00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:50,970
II with a rat oh it's tiny rats brain is

1080
00:48:56,059 --> 00:48:54,569
absolutely tiny commit that's an

1081
00:49:00,739 --> 00:48:56,069
adolescent brain there's still about the

1082
00:49:03,380 --> 00:49:00,749
same size but Santa made uh by one

1083
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:03,390
centimeter by 1 centimeter yes smaller

1084
00:49:06,829 --> 00:49:04,170
than you think

1085
00:49:10,810 --> 00:49:06,839
but the adolescent human brain is not

1086
00:49:13,180 --> 00:49:10,820
dissimilar in size to the adult brain

1087
00:49:15,220 --> 00:49:13,190
it's probably a little bit smaller but

1088
00:49:17,310 --> 00:49:15,230
it's generally undergoing a lot of

1089
00:49:19,870 --> 00:49:17,320
development early in life and by

1090
00:49:23,890 --> 00:49:19,880
actually our brain continues develop

1091
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:23,900
into our early 20s so actually one of

1092
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:25,130
the interesting things that adolescence

1093
00:49:28,450 --> 00:49:26,810
is that our brain is rapidly growing up

1094
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:28,460
until around adolescence and then

1095
00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:29,930
prefrontal cortex which is the area

1096
00:49:32,250 --> 00:49:30,710
that's involved in a lotta

1097
00:49:35,590 --> 00:49:32,260
decision-making and emotional regulation

1098
00:49:37,090 --> 00:49:35,600
starts to prune so we lose about 50% of

1099
00:49:38,770 --> 00:49:37,100
the synapses which are the connections

1100
00:49:40,270 --> 00:49:38,780
between different neurons over the

1101
00:49:42,430 --> 00:49:40,280
course of adolescence so the brain

1102
00:49:44,740 --> 00:49:42,440
becomes a lot more refined so that part

1103
00:49:46,090 --> 00:49:44,750
is actually while some of the neurons

1104
00:49:47,350 --> 00:49:46,100
are growing in different places it's

1105
00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:47,360
getting a lot more refined and

1106
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:49,310
streamlined so that's kind of part of

1107
00:49:52,570 --> 00:49:50,720
the reason why adolescent brains can be

1108
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:52,580
so sensitive to environmental stressors

1109
00:49:57,340 --> 00:49:55,130
or other stressful situations is because

1110
00:50:01,560 --> 00:49:57,350
it's a very vulnerable window where

1111
00:50:06,730 --> 00:50:05,260
we certainly do yeah so another part of

1112
00:50:08,350 --> 00:50:06,740
research we have in our lab is actually

1113
00:50:10,690 --> 00:50:08,360
looking at affective junk food diets in

1114
00:50:13,090 --> 00:50:10,700
adolescents and we find that actually

1115
00:50:15,490 --> 00:50:13,100
adolescents are much more sensitive to

1116
00:50:17,260 --> 00:50:15,500
these type of diets than adults are so

1117
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:17,270
in some of my work we've shown that an

1118
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:20,210
adolescent rat is impaired in spatial

1119
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:25,040
memories so earlier then saying I don't

1120
00:50:32,410 --> 00:50:29,770
rat is fed the same diet person comes in

1121
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:32,420
Homer Simpson is so I've got a diagram

1122
00:50:35,860 --> 00:50:34,160
here about how we test for special

1123
00:50:38,140 --> 00:50:35,870
memories in the right so we've got -

1124
00:50:40,330 --> 00:50:38,150
Homer Simpson's here and basically rats

1125
00:50:42,850 --> 00:50:40,340
like novel things so I've got a little

1126
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:42,860
diagram a little toy rat and he's like

1127
00:50:47,410 --> 00:50:45,290
sniffing both of them but after five

1128
00:50:49,540 --> 00:50:47,420
minutes when he's back in his home cage

1129
00:50:51,300 --> 00:50:49,550
I'll move one of these Homer Simpson's

1130
00:50:54,580 --> 00:50:51,310
and he has to go back into the cage and

1131
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:54,590
find which one is the novel one and so a

1132
00:50:58,050 --> 00:50:56,240
normal rat will spend more time

1133
00:51:01,300 --> 00:50:58,060
investigating and sniffing around this

1134
00:51:03,250 --> 00:51:01,310
Homer Simpson in the new location but

1135
00:51:05,890 --> 00:51:03,260
the rat that's been fed this high-fat

1136
00:51:08,050 --> 00:51:05,900
high-sugar diet will forget and it'll

1137
00:51:10,030 --> 00:51:08,060
like go and explore like both of them

1138
00:51:11,350 --> 00:51:10,040
equally so that's how we test spatial

1139
00:51:14,740 --> 00:51:11,360
memories in rats

1140
00:51:16,060 --> 00:51:14,750
Wow I have come to the right table where

1141
00:51:18,970 --> 00:51:16,070
can people find out more about your

1142
00:51:21,610 --> 00:51:18,980
research we have a website our boss is

1143
00:51:23,650 --> 00:51:21,620
dr. professor Rick Richardson at UNSW

1144
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:23,660
and so we're under the Richardson lab

1145
00:51:26,050 --> 00:51:24,770
and there's a lot more pictures and

1146
00:51:28,420 --> 00:51:26,060
information about the different research

1147
00:51:33,610 --> 00:51:28,430
that we do thank you very much thank you

1148
00:51:37,060 --> 00:51:33,620
very much thank you and it's time for

1149
00:51:39,940 --> 00:51:37,070
another table hello hello and who do we

1150
00:51:42,070 --> 00:51:39,950
have here and what do you do my name is

1151
00:51:45,340 --> 00:51:42,080
t'keyah Venus I'm a developmental

1152
00:51:48,610 --> 00:51:45,350
linguist which means that I study

1153
00:51:51,370 --> 00:51:48,620
language as a phenomenon and especially

1154
00:51:54,070 --> 00:51:51,380
how people learn it so how it develops

1155
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:54,080
from young people just before they're

1156
00:52:01,530 --> 00:51:58,490
born until about five years of age from

1157
00:52:03,820 --> 00:52:01,540
my very limited understanding is that is

1158
00:52:06,610 --> 00:52:03,830
exactly at the time where the human

1159
00:52:12,130 --> 00:52:06,620
brain is like a Spanish listening and

1160
00:52:15,130 --> 00:52:12,140
learning an incredible rate and sponge

1161
00:52:17,980 --> 00:52:15,140
its presence that sponge is already

1162
00:52:20,620 --> 00:52:17,990
there before birth and the ears are also

1163
00:52:23,530 --> 00:52:20,630
functioning before birth so the sponge

1164
00:52:25,210 --> 00:52:23,540
starts absorbing before birth I think we

1165
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:25,220
always have to keep in mind that birth

1166
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:28,970
is just a benchmark event in life but

1167
00:52:32,620 --> 00:52:30,770
it's not when development starts

1168
00:52:35,170 --> 00:52:32,630
language development starts slightly

1169
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:35,180
before that and especially the first and

1170
00:52:40,540 --> 00:52:37,280
second year of life are incredibly

1171
00:52:42,970 --> 00:52:40,550
important in in building the foundation

1172
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:42,980
for further language development I mean

1173
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:44,570
children get jokes only when they're

1174
00:52:48,810 --> 00:52:46,640
maybe eight or nine eight ten that's

1175
00:52:51,010 --> 00:52:48,820
they're still developing their bit

1176
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:51,020
disabilities of language but the big

1177
00:52:56,170 --> 00:52:53,690
foundation blocks are created within the

1178
00:52:57,610 --> 00:52:56,180
first term yes yes yes you're right III

1179
00:53:00,580 --> 00:52:57,620
think there are many things that

1180
00:53:01,780 --> 00:53:00,590
children will grow to understand but if

1181
00:53:05,020 --> 00:53:01,790
you're talking about jokes

1182
00:53:07,770 --> 00:53:05,030
I mean being an uncle myself even when

1183
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:07,780
the kids were three and four and five

1184
00:53:13,210 --> 00:53:10,880
they found things so funny and you can

1185
00:53:14,830 --> 00:53:13,220
make them laugh so hard isn't that

1186
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:14,840
interesting that the sense of humor

1187
00:53:20,890 --> 00:53:18,530
kicks in so early I find it very hard to

1188
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:20,900
speak to that because I'm a phonologists

1189
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:25,850
so what I can observe is anecdotally how

1190
00:53:30,070 --> 00:53:28,160
children around me develop language and

1191
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:30,080
develop jokes and develop a sense of

1192
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:32,690
humor and sometimes can find something

1193
00:53:38,020 --> 00:53:35,210
very funny because they recognize that

1194
00:53:41,380 --> 00:53:38,030
everyone around them is laughing so

1195
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:41,390
they're laughing at the same time yes

1196
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:43,040
because that seems to be the thing that

1197
00:53:49,330 --> 00:53:46,880
we do but they might be looking at

1198
00:53:51,970 --> 00:53:49,340
context rather than actually

1199
00:53:54,010 --> 00:53:51,980
understanding why it's funny I guess do

1200
00:53:56,290 --> 00:53:54,020
you make a good point so we think about

1201
00:53:59,500 --> 00:53:56,300
something like a pun for example which

1202
00:54:01,770 --> 00:53:59,510
needs some complexity of thought to

1203
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:01,780
understand and appreciate the humor that

1204
00:54:06,580 --> 00:54:04,130
really wouldn't come in until a bit

1205
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:06,590
later you say until a bit later and I

1206
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:08,690
don't want to be quoted really putting

1207
00:54:14,470 --> 00:54:12,050
really putting an age to that but what

1208
00:54:16,660 --> 00:54:14,480
we can observe that language competence

1209
00:54:18,670 --> 00:54:16,670
is knowing the language but it's also

1210
00:54:21,070 --> 00:54:18,680
knowing how to use it in a social

1211
00:54:21,970 --> 00:54:21,080
context and if you know to laugh at the

1212
00:54:24,190 --> 00:54:21,980
right moment

1213
00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:24,200
you may appear like a confident language

1214
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:27,110
user but you may not have gotten the

1215
00:54:31,420 --> 00:54:29,330
joke that's interesting that's

1216
00:54:33,100 --> 00:54:31,430
fascinating and again folks is one of

1217
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:33,110
the many fascinating scientists here

1218
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:35,210
tonight are you online where can people

1219
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:37,970
find out more about what you do we are

1220
00:54:42,970 --> 00:54:40,370
the child language lab at at Macquarie

1221
00:54:45,790 --> 00:54:42,980
University which means that we are also

1222
00:54:48,370 --> 00:54:45,800
always looking for little scientists to

1223
00:54:49,780 --> 00:54:48,380
help us with our research I think the

1224
00:54:51,870 --> 00:54:49,790
best thing to do would actually be

1225
00:54:55,609 --> 00:54:51,880
googling for child language lab

1226
00:54:57,079 --> 00:54:55,619
Macquarie University and then find us

1227
00:54:58,700 --> 00:54:57,089
there's the clue folks if you are

1228
00:55:00,769 --> 00:54:58,710
interested in that sort of thing thank

1229
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:00,779
you very much thank you very much and

1230
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:04,170
ever good night I've come out here to

1231
00:55:07,459 --> 00:55:05,729
the Courtyard in front of the the

1232
00:55:07,819 --> 00:55:07,469
Powerhouse Museum hello who do we have

1233
00:55:11,329 --> 00:55:07,829
here

1234
00:55:12,829 --> 00:55:11,339
adjacent hurry and next to your

1235
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:12,839
telescope and you're just telling people

1236
00:55:18,049 --> 00:55:15,450
about Jupiter and what are you finding

1237
00:55:20,479 --> 00:55:18,059
is fascinating people tonight is it

1238
00:55:21,950 --> 00:55:20,489
because you're focused on Jupiter so

1239
00:55:24,229 --> 00:55:21,960
part of it is Jupiter and the fact that

1240
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:24,239
you can actually see this detail on the

1241
00:55:27,499 --> 00:55:26,130
surface so you'll see some stripes which

1242
00:55:29,029 --> 00:55:27,509
are the different gases that make up

1243
00:55:31,509 --> 00:55:29,039
Jupiter and you're actually seeing

1244
00:55:34,969 --> 00:55:31,519
detail on the surface of a planet that's

1245
00:55:36,829 --> 00:55:34,979
720 million kilometres away it's pretty

1246
00:55:39,469 --> 00:55:36,839
mind-blowing stuff how many light

1247
00:55:44,569 --> 00:55:39,479
seconds there's one for you oh it's

1248
00:55:46,759 --> 00:55:44,579
actually about 45 minutes so well you

1249
00:55:50,209 --> 00:55:46,769
got me well done good answer 45 light

1250
00:55:52,579 --> 00:55:50,219
minutes about that yes that's it let's

1251
00:55:55,579 --> 00:55:52,589
gang up I'm gazing up now there it is

1252
00:55:58,609 --> 00:55:55,589
that one yes so that is it that is it

1253
00:56:00,700 --> 00:55:58,619
get your laser out yes that's right it's

1254
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:00,710
stupid around yeah that's Jupiter and

1255
00:56:04,849 --> 00:56:02,880
people are lined up to look for your

1256
00:56:07,130 --> 00:56:04,859
telescope and this bright one down here

1257
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:07,140
so that one right down near the horizon

1258
00:56:11,269 --> 00:56:09,089
towards the West is actually Venus

1259
00:56:14,029 --> 00:56:11,279
that's Venus so we've got Venus over

1260
00:56:16,219 --> 00:56:14,039
here higher up we do have Jupiter that

1261
00:56:17,420 --> 00:56:16,229
we just saw a little bit further along

1262
00:56:20,209 --> 00:56:17,430
in that Lionel

1263
00:56:22,910 --> 00:56:20,219
there's no that's Mars okay we've got

1264
00:56:24,739 --> 00:56:22,920
Saturn just over here and a little bit

1265
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:24,749
further down we've got Mars just only

1266
00:56:29,779 --> 00:56:27,450
doesn't Mars look bright tonight it does

1267
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:29,789
it's actually almost it's just gone past

1268
00:56:34,009 --> 00:56:31,529
the closest point to earth for the last

1269
00:56:36,979 --> 00:56:34,019
three years or so and it was just at

1270
00:56:39,319 --> 00:56:36,989
opposition so that is where the Sun

1271
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:39,329
Earth and Mars all line up in one nice

1272
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:41,249
big straight long line well let's wander

1273
00:56:45,410 --> 00:56:43,170
over to your telescope now folks I'll

1274
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:45,420
just bend over here and have a look

1275
00:56:50,660 --> 00:56:47,690
through this little eyepiece and Wow

1276
00:56:53,289 --> 00:56:50,670
look at that and you can see four of the

1277
00:56:58,569 --> 00:56:57,069
actually I can see five percent sure if

1278
00:56:59,920 --> 00:56:58,579
that fifth one is actually a minute I'd

1279
00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:59,930
have to double-check your little stuff

1280
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:01,760
you'll be a star way way way back behind

1281
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:04,490
it all but we do have the four largest

1282
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:06,170
moons of Jupiter we've got Io Europa

1283
00:57:11,859 --> 00:57:10,130
Ganymede and Callisto yeah so they're

1284
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:11,869
the four large ones that we can see that

1285
00:57:15,250 --> 00:57:13,490
almost like stars and they're right

1286
00:57:17,319 --> 00:57:15,260
there and you know what if I look up

1287
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:17,329
with my naked eye now and I'm looking

1288
00:57:22,450 --> 00:57:20,450
towards Jupiter am I fooling myself to

1289
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:22,460
think I can see one of the moons above

1290
00:57:28,599 --> 00:57:25,250
it so whilst it may look like a moon

1291
00:57:29,799 --> 00:57:28,609
it's actually a star that one I can

1292
00:57:30,940 --> 00:57:29,809
never pronounce it correctly it's

1293
00:57:32,980 --> 00:57:30,950
pronounced something along the lines of

1294
00:57:35,650 --> 00:57:32,990
Zuber and I Kenobi Kenobi

1295
00:57:38,589 --> 00:57:35,660
yeah and it's actually a binary star so

1296
00:57:40,780 --> 00:57:38,599
it's two stars orbiting one another and

1297
00:57:42,069 --> 00:57:40,790
spinning around in space alright well

1298
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:42,079
thank you very much for that little

1299
00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:44,089
lesson and as I can see all the people

1300
00:57:48,220 --> 00:57:45,670
lined up here looks like a very

1301
00:57:50,049 --> 00:57:48,230
successful night for astronomy engage

1302
00:57:57,250 --> 00:57:50,059
and david has bank and for Sydney

1303
00:57:59,349 --> 00:57:57,260
Observatory as well that was the final

1304
00:58:01,720 --> 00:57:59,359
part of our three-part series of speed

1305
00:58:03,220 --> 00:58:01,730
Mead the scientists big thank you to

1306
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:03,230
Frankie Lee from the powerhouse museum

1307
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:05,010
for making it all possible

1308
00:58:25,910 --> 00:58:23,810
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1309
00:58:28,820 --> 00:58:25,920
zone this week and a big thank you a big

1310
00:58:31,190 --> 00:58:28,830
THANK YOU to Angus Firth who was my

1311
00:58:34,130 --> 00:58:31,200
intern for this episode who came along

1312
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:34,140
and edited and mixed a lot of today's

1313
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:37,050
episode and he did a fantastic job well

1314
00:58:42,140 --> 00:58:39,810
done anger sir I think you'll be doing

1315
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:42,150
some more skeptics own editing in the

1316
00:58:45,170 --> 00:58:42,960
near future

1317
00:58:47,690 --> 00:58:45,180
now don't forget of course the big

1318
00:58:51,290 --> 00:58:47,700
skeptic on convention coming up in

1319
00:58:53,450 --> 00:58:51,300
October and you if you're in Sydney

1320
00:58:56,900 --> 00:58:53,460
please come along to the free event on

1321
00:58:59,150 --> 00:58:56,910
the eve of skeptic on which is a big

1322
00:59:00,680 --> 00:58:59,160
welcome event at the Occidental hotel in

1323
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:00,690
we need where we normally have skeptics

1324
00:59:05,270 --> 00:59:03,450
in the pub link on this week's show

1325
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:05,280
notes if you want to come along please

1326
00:59:09,950 --> 00:59:08,160
RSVP remember it's free it's just nice

1327
00:59:12,050 --> 00:59:09,960
to know the numbers we're going to have

1328
00:59:15,170 --> 00:59:12,060
a big trivia night as well we're gonna

1329
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:15,180
take out take up two floors of the

1330
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:17,130
Occidental hotel it should be a really

1331
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:19,050
great night of course while you're there

1332
00:59:24,370 --> 00:59:21,450
if you haven't done so already please

1333
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:24,380
book your tickets for a skeptic on

1334
00:59:29,450 --> 00:59:26,730
coming up on next week's show we're

1335
00:59:31,010 --> 00:59:29,460
going to be chatting to the challenge

1336
00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:31,020
coordinator and investigator from an

1337
00:59:35,450 --> 00:59:32,760
Australian skeptics Ian Bryce we've had

1338
00:59:37,130 --> 00:59:35,460
to bump his segment from this week to

1339
00:59:40,310 --> 00:59:37,140
next week because this week's show was

1340
00:59:42,260 --> 00:59:40,320
quite full also we chat to Celestia

1341
00:59:45,170 --> 00:59:42,270
award from the squaring the strange

1342
00:59:48,050 --> 00:59:45,180
podcast a wonderful sceptical podcast

1343
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:48,060
coming out of well I guess it's coming

1344
00:59:54,020 --> 00:59:51,570
out of Albuquerque New Mexico and Las

1345
00:59:55,790 --> 00:59:54,030
Vegas Nevada with her co-hosts

1346
00:59:59,210 --> 00:59:55,800
Ben and Pasquale anyway we're gonna be

1347
01:00:00,800 --> 00:59:59,220
chatting to Celestia Ward and she is if

1348
01:00:04,940 --> 01:00:00,810
you might remember some people might

1349
01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:04,950
know she is a fantastic artist in fact

1350
01:00:09,859 --> 01:00:07,680
the caricature of me and may not we both

1351
01:00:12,349 --> 01:00:09,869
use on our business cards was done by a

1352
01:00:15,530 --> 01:00:12,359
Celestia a big thank you to those people

1353
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:15,540
who continue to support the skeptic zone

1354
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:19,680
with donations and PayPal micro payments

1355
01:00:24,460 --> 01:00:23,010
and via patreon and new people and you

1356
01:00:26,839 --> 01:00:24,470
know who you are

1357
01:00:28,099 --> 01:00:26,849
the only reason really the show keeps

1358
01:00:30,589 --> 01:00:28,109
going because I certainly couldn't

1359
01:00:32,329 --> 01:00:30,599
afford to do this show there the time it

1360
01:00:35,020 --> 01:00:32,339
takes and the equipment and all the rest

1361
01:00:38,020 --> 01:00:35,030
of the things without real financials

1362
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:38,030
bought from listeners like you and if

1363
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:40,720
you've never thought about contributing

1364
01:00:46,150 --> 01:00:44,090
maybe even $5 a month goes a long way

1365
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:46,160
here the skeptic zone via patreon or

1366
01:00:51,490 --> 01:00:49,520
whatever links at skeptic zone TV much

1367
01:00:53,710 --> 01:00:51,500
appreciated by myself and the whole team

1368
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:53,720
here at the skeptic zone and a big shout

1369
01:00:59,410 --> 01:00:56,930
out to my friends enjoying Dragon Con

1370
01:01:03,660 --> 01:00:59,420
you know Atlanta Georgia right now

1371
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:03,670
I've been following various threads and

1372
01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:06,650
postings and videos on YouTube and

1373
01:01:10,180 --> 01:01:08,240
Facebook and Twitter and all sorts of

1374
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:10,190
things man I'm so jealous I wish I was

1375
01:01:14,650 --> 01:01:12,170
there I hope maybe I can be there

1376
01:01:16,300 --> 01:01:14,660
next year I haven't been to Dragon Con

1377
01:01:19,180 --> 01:01:16,310
for about eight years my first Dragon

1378
01:01:21,130 --> 01:01:19,190
Con was 10 years ago and that's in fact

1379
01:01:24,310 --> 01:01:21,140
where I recorded the first segment for

1380
01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:24,320
the skeptic zone which I guess in a way

1381
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:26,240
this weekend marks the 10th anniversary

1382
01:01:31,390 --> 01:01:29,090
of the first bit of recording for the

1383
01:01:32,890 --> 01:01:31,400
skeptics and so there you go but for

1384
01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:32,900
this week this is Richard Saunders

1385
01:01:41,470 --> 01:01:39,710
signing off from Sydney Australia you've

1386
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:41,480
been listening to the skeptic zone

1387
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:45,890
podcast please visit our website at WWDC

1388
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:50,330
be for show notes contacts and to access

1389
01:01:56,470 --> 01:01:52,880
the bat catalog of episodes going back

1390
01:02:00,130 --> 01:01:56,480
to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone

1391
01:02:02,530 --> 01:02:00,140
podcast on twitter at skeptic zone visit

1392
01:02:03,390 --> 01:02:02,540
our facebook page or leave a review on

1393
01:02:06,100 --> 01:02:03,400
itunes

1394
01:02:09,460 --> 01:02:06,110
you can also support the skeptic zone

1395
01:02:12,180 --> 01:02:09,470
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone

1396
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:12,190
podcast is an independent production

1397
01:02:16,690 --> 01:02:14,570
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1398
01:02:19,060 --> 01:02:16,700
skeptic zone and not necessarily those

1399
01:02:20,850 --> 01:02:19,070
of Australian skeptics or any other

1400
01:02:29,660 --> 01:02:20,860
sceptical organisation

1401
01:02:35,279 --> 01:02:32,160
hello all the people who listen after

1402
01:02:36,809 --> 01:02:35,289
the music the post music gang arm maybe

1403
01:02:39,870 --> 01:02:36,819
somebody can come up with a name I've

1404
01:02:41,849 --> 01:02:39,880
had more requests for the dice game so

1405
01:02:44,130 --> 01:02:41,859
here we go I've got a dye in my hand

1406
01:02:46,019 --> 01:02:44,140
it's a 10 sided I'm gonna roll it three

1407
01:02:50,519 --> 01:02:46,029
times which will give me a number

1408
01:02:53,269 --> 01:02:50,529
between 0 and 1000 so you use your

1409
01:02:56,039 --> 01:02:53,279
predicting power now folks predict away

1410
01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:56,049
before I roll the first number have you

1411
01:03:03,750 --> 01:02:58,720
got your number between 0 or from 1 to

1412
01:03:05,359 --> 01:03:03,760
1000 good I'm just waiting for you yes

1413
01:03:19,819 --> 01:03:05,369
you've got it all right here we go